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  • xyzgc
    12-25 03:41 PM
    Why worry so much about some random terrorist acts in India when billions of people are dying of disease and hunger all over the globe?

    Like somebody once said - let's worry about the enlightened self interests tomorrow, let's be concerned with the self-interests today. Before we even think about becoming Charitable Mr. Gates, let's first come close to being Mr. Gates first!

    You will find your ties to India very difficult to break. You and I are part of the international business community and India plays a significant role in this global economy! Terrorism, anywhere in this economic zone not just India, will impact either you or your employer directly.

    India has a dark chapter in history of repeated Islamic infiltrations, invasions, barbarism and terrorism - all of which goes back to 11th and 12th centuries and more significantly of caving in to them. We see only history repeating itself and all of us must be aware of this fact. Pakistani terrorists attack India with impunity, while the rest of the world dismisses it as an outcome of Kashmir conflict, Hindu-Muslim religious divide and so on. Not realizing that there are deep economic ramifications.
    I'll do my best to educate/remind everyone of this fact, even if it means being branded on immigration forums as a hate-monger.
    I believe that the world opinion has long reaching influence - it may be a slow-acting antidote but its curative effects will be long lasting.





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  • malaGCPahije
    07-14 09:29 AM
    Do you have any idea what are you talking about and why are you talking about? In which year you entered into this GC hell queue? I would suggest you to go through last 8 years of EB category happenings and then you would realize why EB3-India are frustrated....I would generally write but before that I would think first and then write. Best Luck.

    Eb2- I people are wrong when they think any steps taken by EB3-I are because of jealousy. I have contributed in each of IV effort knowing fully well that Eb3I is not going to be benefited by the effort. Still someone was getting the benefit. Now if EB3I want to do something, what is the issue? If a person from Eb2I with PD of 2006 feels that the reason behind efforts taken by a EB3 I person with PD of 2001/2002 is jealousy, then the EB2I person is being very narrow in his/her thinking. It should not take a huge amount of brainpower to realize the frustration and sadness the EB3 I person would be feeling. Irrespective of this I think a lot of people who contribute to IV campaigns are EB3I.

    Everyone irrespective of what category he or she is would very easily realize that Eb3I needs help, else it is going nowhere. By reading comments in this thread, my fear is coming true that the help needed may not come from IV. Once all EB2 people get their GC, there would be no further fight for EB3.





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  • akred
    04-07 01:35 PM
    Research institutes hiring employees for research are already exempt from H1 quota. So are non-profits and universities.

    What are you talking about?

    I am talking about using a different standard for defining R&D. A standard similar to the one used for determining the R&D tax credit. A whole lot of companies other than pure research institutes are eligible for R&D tax credits. And there appears to be broad support for such a definition of R&D.

    http://www.nam.org/s_nam/sec.asp?CID=514&DID=512
    http://www.ieeeusa.org/policy/positions/researchcredit.html





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  • Legal
    08-08 02:23 PM
    You MUST read them out loud

    1) That's not right ................................... Sum Ting Wong
    2) Are you harboring a fugitive?................. Hu Yu Hai Ding
    3) See me ASAP....................................... Kum Hia Nao
    4) Small Horse ........................................ Tai Ni Po Ni
    5) Did you go to the beach? ...................... Wai Yu So Tan
    6) I think you need a face lift .................... Chin Tu Fat
    7) It's very dark in here ............................Wai So Dim
    8) I thought you were on a diet ..................Wai Yu Mun Ching?
    9) This is a tow away zone .........................No Pah King
    10) Our meeting is scheduled for next week ..Wai Yu Kum Nao?
    11) Staying out of sight ..............................Lei Ying Lo
    12) He's cleaning his automobile ..................Wa Shing Ka
    13) Your body odor is offensive ....................Yu Stin Ki Pu

    :D

    :p



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  • gimme_GC2006
    03-23 11:48 PM
    Whoa... This is nasty. Asking for documents is one thing, but this is downright scary. The more the documents they ask for more are the chances they can find something wrong.

    Hire a good attorney and respond thru Attorney. Good luck with everything and keep us updated. I am really interested in the outcome. Hopefully they will give you what you want.

    yea..it looks scary..
    hey but I have decided not hire an attorney..just dont want to waste another grand on GC anymore.

    I will send whatever I can just tell them that I dont have contracts with client 'coz I am not expected to have them since its between employer and client.

    And will see how it goes..hopefully officer will understand it.

    But thanks to all of you..I will post here if anything useful happens or this might just end up as we need your latest finger prints. :cool:





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  • alisa
    12-30 11:34 PM
    It is preposterous to compare Mumbai attacks with a speculative India involvement in Baluchistan.

    The principal actors, i.e. the actual fighters on the ground in Baluchitan are all Baluchis. Were Qasaab and his other 9 companions Kashmiris? What locus standi these west punjabi fighters have to attack Mumbai?

    Baluch conflict is limited primarily to armed skirmishes between Pakitani army and BLA (and may be some other Baluch nationalist groups). In military terms it can legitimately be called fair fight because both parties are armed. But can shooting unarmed civilians in the back who are sipping coffee or eating dinner or just waiting for a train be called a fair fight? Can the rules of engagement of any country, or the morals of any religion permit that? Isn�t this a text book example of pure unadultrated terrorism.

    I never suggested they Bombay and Balochistan were morally equivalent.

    At some point in this thread, someone suggested that India should try to destabilize Pakistan by supporting insurgent and militant groups in Pakistan. And I had merely suggested that Pakistan already suspects India of doing that. And that there is probably some truth in it. And Pakistan supports insurgent groups in India.
    Or at least, both countries keep their 'options' open by maintaining contacts with the insurgent in the other countries.
    That is the vicious cycle.

    As far as Bombay is concerned, I have said it before that I believe that that was an attempt to provoke India, so that the Pakistan army can be diverted to the Eastern front, and the Taalibaan/militants get some relief.

    I think the Indian think tanks think that the Pakistan army was behind it. I think that the Taalibaans/Jihadists were behind it. It will be very hard to prove it one way or the other.

    And war would be a disaster; like jumping from the frying pan into the fire. What amazes me is the capacity of the human mind to give in to irrationality, and vigorously advocate jumping from the frying pan into the fire.



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  • Marphad
    12-18 02:24 PM
    BTW, who is Antulay? I googled but no clue.

    Abdul Rehman Antulay. Current cabinet minister and EX Maharastra CM. The guy who created biggest cement scandal at the time and was exposed by Arun Shourie.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._R._Antulay





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  • mariner5555
    04-14 04:41 PM
    but most of the people that I know of, who have very young kids ( 1 - 5/6 year olds) ..buying a house was a right decision. (and common sense says the same thing).
    I know people who bought townhouses, not big houses (thus paying mortgage which is slightly more than the apartment rents). They are not slogging extra and they are having single income. I keep re-iterating that what I meant is when things are conducive and situation is right. I do not know which part of that you do not understand.
    I said there are exceptions ..which part of that you don't understand !!
    since you are resting yr case ..I won't drag this more.



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  • unitednations
    08-02 10:51 PM
    ouch. there is always uncertainty, all steps of this gc process :(

    thanks for the note. I only hope they 'go after' people if they suspect fraud or out of status or salary issues etc.

    We are just a widget/number to uscis adjudicator. All of these ability to pay denials were very scarce prior to 2004. However, in 2003 and 2004 a lot of the 245i labors got approved (gas stations, restaurants, etc.). USCIS started to see a lot of bogus companies filing for people. They decided to clarify in a memo how they were going to look at ability to pay. Now; ability to pay was used rarely, in those cases that didn't look genuine (if you go to AAO decisions you would have seen the type of companies that uscis usually went after). However, to combat the 245i labors they started to apply the memo to all companies. Just imagine that a company with $20 million revenue can get ability to pay denials; but a company with $15,000 in revenue can get approval.





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  • alterego
    07-14 01:12 PM
    Well, why is there 33% quota for EB1,2 and 3 in the first place. They could have very well made it 100% for Eb1 and if there was any spill over, EB2 gets them and then finally EB3! Because, US needs people from all categories.

    Now all that I am saying is there should be some % on the spill over that comes from EB1.

    If there are 300,000 applicants in EB2 and if the spill over from EB1 is 30K every year, you think it is fair that EB2 gets that for over 6-7 years without EB3 getting anything? That is not fair and if that's what the law says, it has to be revisited. I am saying give 75% or even 90% to EB2 and make sure you clear EB3 with PD as old 2001 and 2002. That is being human. They deserve a GC as much as an EB2 with 2007 (and I am not saying that EB3 2007 deserves as much as an EB2 2007).

    Bottom line, EB3 (or for that matter any category) can't be asked to wait endlessly just because there are some smart kids in another queue! We can come up with a better format of the letter; we can change our strategy to address this issue; we do not have to talk about EB2 and mention only our problems. We want EB3 queue to move.

    "Should" has no place in this. That is your opinion. A lot of things should happen in my view, that does not mean they are the law. It would be rather presumptous of us to tell the US legislators or Gov't how things "should" be.

    The laws are made the way they are for a reason, that is what US lawmakers consider to be in the best interest of their country. As for the spillover question, what is clear is that the real shaft was on Eb2I for the past 2 yrs, when all the spillover was erroneously going to EB3ROW. Eb3I was nor is in contention for those numbers. Sadly for EB3I, the country is oversubscribed and that too in a lesser priority category.

    Write this letter if you must, but it will cause the EB3 community to lose credibility with a lot of people, including the executive branch. They do not respond well to illogical letters and those that second guess their right to set the laws as they wish. It will turn out to be a massive distraction and turn into a joke.

    The focus of the EB3 community should be squarely on visa recapture. Technically that will help EB3I the most. Those affected most stand to gain the most as well. Failing this, I am not sure anything you guys do will make an iota of difference.



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  • brshankar
    08-05 10:27 PM
    Rolling Flood,

    There are only 3000 visas allocated to EB2 India category every year. If they didn't allow spill overs from EB1 to EB2 then the PD for EB2 India will be UNAVAILABLE just like EB3 India and EB3 India guys would not want to port to EB2 because it does not help them.

    The main reason EB2 India is moving fast is because of the spill overs from other EB categories. OK I agree that EB2 India should get spillover visas from EB2 ROW but why should they get EB1 spillover visas? Is EB2 = EB1? Why can't they allocate the EB1 visas equally between EB2 and EB3. See it is the law that allows for visas to spillover from EB1 to EB2 and then to EB3. Same way it is the law that allows for EB3 to port to EB2.

    Please dont make this a big deal. Nothing is perfect, we can find fault in everything.

    To my fellow IV members,

    Lets not fight. We need each other to win this battle. Lets win it together.

    Thanks





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  • rsdang
    08-29 10:58 AM
    :D We've all been there, but don't like to admit it. We've all kicked

    back in our cubicles and suddenly felt something brewing down below. As

    much as we try to convince ourselves otherwise, the WORK POOP is

    inevitable.

    For those who hate pooping at work, following is the Survival Guide

    for Taking a dump at work.



    *CROP DUSTING* - When farting, you walk really fast around the

    office so the smell is not in your area and everyone else gets a whiff, but no

    one knows where it came from. Be careful when you do this. Do not stop

    until the full fart has been expelled. Walk an extra 30 feet to make sure

    the smell has left your pants.



    *FLY BY* - The act of scouting out a bathroom before pooping. Walk

    in and check for other poopers. If there are others in the bathroom,

    leave and come back again. Be careful not to become a FREQUENT FLYER.

    People may become suspicious if they catch you constantly going into the bathroom.



    *ESCAPEE* - A fart that slips out while taking a pee or forcing a

    poop in a stall. This is usually accompanied by a sudden wave of

    embarrassment. If you release an escapee, do not acknowledge it.

    Pretend it did not happen. If you are a man and are standing next to the farter in the urinal,

    pretend you did not hear it. No one likes an escapee. It is uncomfortable for all involved.

    Making a joke or laughing makes both parties feel uneasy.



    *JAILBREAK*- When forcing a poop, several farts slip out at a machine

    gun pace. This is usually a side effect of diarrhea or a hangover.

    If this should happen, do not panic. Remain in the stall until everyone has

    left the bathroom to spare everyone the awkwardness of what just occurred.


    *COURTESY FLUSH* - The act of flushing the toilet the instant the

    poop hits the water. This reduces the amount of air time the poop has to

    stink up the bathroom. This can help you avoid being caught doing the

    WALK OF SHAME.



    *WALK OF SHAME* - Walking from the stall-to the sink-to the door

    after you have just stunk up the bathroom. This can be a very uncomfortable

    moment if someone walks in and busts you. As with farts, it is best to

    pretend that the smell does not exist.--Can be avoided with the use of

    the COURTESY FLUSH.


    *OUT OF THE CLOSET POOPER* - A colleague who poops at work and is

    Dog-gone proud of it. You will often see an Out-Of-The-Closet Pooper

    enter the bathroom with a newspaper or magazine under their arm.

    Always look around the office for the Out-Of- The-Closet Pooper before

    entering the bathroom.



    *THE POOPING FRIENDS NETWORK (P.F.N)* A group of co-workers who band

    together to ensure emergency pooping goes off without incident. This

    group can help you to monitor the whereabouts of Out-Of-The-Closet

    Poopers and identify SAFE HAVENS.



    *SAFE HAVENS* A seldom-used bathroom somewhere in t he building

    where you can least expect visitors. Try floors that are predominantly of

    the opposite sex. This will reduce the odds of a pooper of your sex

    entering the bathroom.



    *TURD BURGLAR* - Someone who does not realize that you are in the

    stall and tries to force the door open. This is one of the most shocking

    and vulnerable moments that can occur when taking a poop at work. If

    this occurs, remain in the stall until the Turd Burglar leaves. This way

    you will avoid all uncomfortable eye contact.



    *CAMO-COUGH* A phony cough that alerts all new entrants into the

    bathroom that you are in a stall. This can be used to cover-up a

    WATERMELON, or to alert potential *Turd Burglars* - Very effective when used in conjunction with a

    SHIRLEY TEMPLE .



    *SHIRLEY TEMPLE* - A subtle toe-tapping that is used to alert

    potential Turd Burglars that you are occupying a stall. This will remove all

    doubt that the stall is occupied. If you hea r a SHIRLEY TEMPLE, leave the

    bathroom immediately so the pooper can poop in peace.



    *WATERMELON* - A poop that creates a loud splash when hitting the

    toilet water. This is also an embarrassing incident. If you feel a

    Watermelon coming on, create a diversion. See CAMO-COUGH.



    *HAVANAOMELET* - A case of diarrhea that creates a series of loud

    splashes in the toilet water--often accompanied by an Escapee. Try

    using a CAMO-COUGH with a SHIRLEY TEMPLE.



    *AUNT BETTY* - A bathroom user who seems to linger around

    forever...Could spend extended lengths of time in front of the

    mirror or sitting on the pot.

    An AUNT BETTY makes it difficult to relax while on the crapper, as

    you should always wait to poop when the bathroom is empty. This benefits

    you as well as the other bathroom attendees



    ************************************************** ******************

    SOME VARIETIES~



    *The King Poop* - This kind is the kind of poop that killed Elvis.

    It doesn't come until you're all sweaty, trembling and purple from

    straining so hard.



    *Bali Belly Poop* - You poop so much you lose 5 lbs.



    *Cement Block* - You wish you'd gotten a spinal block before you

    poop.



    *Cork Poop* - (Also Known as Floater Poop) = Even after the third

    flush, it's still floating in there. How do I get rid of it? This poop

    usually happens at someone else's house.



    *The Bungee Poop* - The kind of poop that just hangs off your rear

    before it falls into the water.



    *The Crippler* - The kind of poop where you have to sit on the

    toilet so long your legs go numb from the waist down.



    *The Chitty Chitty Bang Bang* - The kind of poop that hits you when

    you're trapped in your car in a traffic jam.



    *The Party Pooper* - The giant poop you take at a party and, when

    you flush the toilet, you watch in horror as the water starts to rise.



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  • logiclife
    07-10 10:14 AM
    Did anybody contradict this caller on the show? Is the recorded show available online?

    We got the CD from studio which we will try to upload on the website. Yes, we did counter that guys. Carl said that the slaves Mike is talking about drive in BMWs and Mercedes to his law firm and majority of his immigrant clients on H1B make more than 100K a year in California.

    We also explained that there are safeguards in place both at temporary visa level like H1B and permenant visa (Green Card) to protect the American worker. The Department of labor has to certify that a willing, qualified, available American citizen could not be found for the position for which a foriegn worker is being hired and the foriegn worker is being paid the wages commensurate with prevailing wages. That pretty much was the rebuttal to "H1B slaves are driving down wages" theory.





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  • kc_p21
    12-26 12:58 PM
    I suggest that you provide your opinion on some other forum. This forum is only for Immigration matters. Learn to use it appropriately.

    Thanks,



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  • thomachan72
    07-08 09:00 AM
    Having said that, dont forget to chose a lawyer who is noted to fight cases that are tough. Contact many lawyers including the murthy, rajeeve khanna etc etc. Evaluate what each of them say. Some will offer advice only after an initial siging of legal contract and paying the consultation fee, there are others who do the initial evaluation free of cost. Hope somebody in this forum with experience gives out the names of good lawyers for you in time.





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  • unitednations
    07-17 12:47 PM
    Here is a real example that is going on right now.

    Person came here on F-1. OPT expired May 2002. His h-1b was approved with a starting validity date of December 2002.

    He gets an rfe to give I-20 and prove status.

    Now: he had an I-94 card from F-1 with duration of stay. Therefore; he is not accruing unlawful presence. However; he was out of status from May 2002 to December 2002. About 7 months. At first glance; he is not eligible to get 485 approved.

    However; in response it will say that there is a grace period of 60 days from end of OPT which will allow him valid status until middle of July. Therefore; from middle of july until h-1b approval he was out of status. By our calculations he was out of status for about 165 days from the end of the 60 day grace period until h-1b approval.

    Now; since he only has a buffer of 15 days remaining; uscis could go from 2002- until 2005 when he filed 485 to see if they can get 15 days of out of status and deny his 485.

    Big problem for him is that he used ac21 and is self employed and not on H-1b anymore. If USCIS should deny his 485; he can't re-file because he is not in non immigrant status and even if he was; the visa dates are unavailable and he would not be able to get cooperation from old employer to re-file 485 anyways because they wouldn't cooperate. He wouldn't be able to get labor substitution because that is gone now.

    If they should deny his 485 then he has to get an h-1b approval for the remainder of his six years; he won't get an I-94 card because he isn't in non immigrant status; he would have to go for visa stamping and then start all over again.

    Not a good situation all around for him.



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  • NeverEndingH1
    12-17 04:05 PM
    . . . But you are blinded so much with hate. The '485 Approved' thread was started on 12-10-2008. My handle was not created on that day!

    I was reading posts on 485 Approved what Marphad mentioned. I saw that it was actually you who created new IV handle that day.





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  • hpandey
    06-25 04:13 PM
    If you have only been reading all the doomsday articles on the net about another nosedive in the realestate market, then I must suggest you to step out and smell the coffee. Other than in a few areas like Detroit and Miami, the home prices are close to stable and are not heading to fall another 10%. When people write articles they want to sensationalize thier reports. What's happening in Detriot will not be happening everywhere in the nation. Real estate markets are very local and cannot be generalized. So anyone that is thinking that there is going to be another HUGE drop in home prices are mistaken.

    Yes, you are right, absolutely no one can time the market. That is why it is a great strategy not to speculate, but go by the fact that real estate prices are affordable now and interest rates are the lowest in recent history. Don't think that just because there was a bubble you'll now get good homes for anything more than 5% discount.

    Remember that you probably have a job in the city you live in, and that you are continually employed, means that there are other people around you with jobs. They are ready to snap up homes even before you get to see it from the inside. I see homes that are in bad shape in my county (Fairfax, VA) sitting in the market for months. But the ones that are good goes under contract in less than a week.

    I agree with you . Most of the people in this thread against home ownership are thinking that house prices are going to keep on falling and interest rates are going to be this low forever based on front page news articles.

    I think its time for people to realize that the housing bubble burst in 2007 and we are already two years into it . The people who brought houses in the period of 2003 - 2007 suffered since they bought when the bubble was peaking but in the last two years the price correction has happened and in most good areas the prices are not falling anymore.

    I am not asking anyone to buy or rent .. its a personal decision but if you believe that one year down the line you will get a more cheaper house and the interest rates would still be at 5 % you should think twice .

    House is not an investment but a side effect of home ownership is that you will end up with a property but if you continue to rent you are sure to end up with nothing .





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  • mrajatish
    04-08 12:21 PM
    Look what really does not make sense about the "Consulting company" portion is that management consulting companies like BCG, Mckenzie or the Big 4 consulting firms have a business model where they "outsource" employees for projects to other companies. So, as it stands, these companies will not be able to hire anyone from top business schools. And we are not talking about desi consulting companies here (no pun intended).

    Again, this bill embodies the basic principle that displaces US workers do not want to understand:
    "What is good for the economy may not be good for an individual".

    And I say that because I have been myself displaces 2 times in my life, and every time, I have fallen (or stumbled), I have walked an extra mile to get a better life.

    I just feel sorry for people like me and many others who came to this country with a different mindset and now find themselves in the midst of the worst anti-immigrant clime that has existed in a long time.

    That said, I feel obligated to remind everyone - "Do yourself a favor and do everything within your means to make a meaningful change, self-help is the best help you will get"

    - Raj





    Zeb
    12-26 11:15 PM
    Looks like India is employing a cold start strategy. In the first phase of operations, Indian Air force will strike LeT camps in Muridke and Muzaffarabad and then ask Pakistan to refrain from taking retaliatory action. The onus will be on Pakistan to take the decision regarding further escalation of hostilities.

    Interesting to see how Pakistan will respond to such a move.


    BUNCH OF IDIOTS WAKE UP. PAKISTAN IS A NUCLEAR STATE.
    WAR IS NO SOLUTION TO ANY PROBLEM.





    Macaca
    05-27 06:05 PM
    The Audacity of Chinese Frauds (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/27/business/27norris.html) By FLOYD NORRIS | The New York Times

    To pull off a fraud that humiliates the cream of the global financial elite, you need to have some friends. And where better to have them than at the local bank?

    The fraud at Longtop Financial Technologies, a Chinese financial software company, was exposed this week in an amazing letter from its auditors, Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu. It appears to be a tale of corrupt bankers and their threats to auditors who had learned of the lies.

    Deloitte, which had given clean audit opinions to Longtop for six consecutive years, apparently was well on its way to providing a seventh, for the fiscal year that ended March 31. But for some reason � Deloitte did not say why �the auditor went back to Longtop�s banks last week to again seek confirmation of cash balances.

    It appears Deloitte sought confirmations from bank headquarters, rather than the local branches that had previously verified that Longtop�s cash really was on deposit. And that set off panic at the software firm.

    �Within hours� of beginning the new round of confirmations on May 17, the confirmation process was stopped, Deloitte stated in its letter of resignation, the result of �intervention by the company�s officials including the chief operating officer, the confirmation process was stopped.�

    The company told banks that Deloitte was not really the auditor. It seized documents, Deloitte wrote, and made �threats to stop our staff leaving the company premises unless they allowed the company to retain our audit files.�

    Despite the company�s efforts, Deloitte learned Longtop did not have the cash it claimed and that there were �significant bank borrowings� not reflected in the company�s books.

    A few days later, Deloitte said, Longtop�s chairman, Jia Xiao Gong, told a Deloitte partner that there was �fake cash recorded on the books� because there had been �fake revenue in the past.�

    The stock has not traded since that confrontation. The final trade on the New York Stock Exchange was for $18.93, a price that valued the company at $1.1 billion. At its peak in November, it had a market capitalization of $2.4 billion.

    It now seems likely that the stock is worthless. It is a real company, but its revenue and profits probably were a small fraction of the amounts reported. The existence of the �significant� debt means that whatever assets are left are likely to be owned by the banks, not the investors.

    Deloitte may have decided to check the numbers again because it knew a growing group of bears on the stock had been challenging the Longtop story as too good to be true, questioning both its financial statements and the claims it made for its software. A month earlier, Deloitte resigned as the auditor of another Chinese company, China MediaExpress, in part because of questions about bank confirmations.

    It is never good for an auditor to have certified a fraud, but Deloitte seems to have acted properly. It got bank confirmations, and it got them directly from the banks rather than relying on the company to provide them, as PricewaterhouseCoopers had done when it failed to notice a huge fraud at Satyam, an Indian technology company.

    But the confirmations were lies.

    �This means the Chinese banks were in on the fraud, at least at branch level,� says John Hempton, the chief investment officer of Bronte Capital, an Australian hedge fund. He was one of the bears who questioned Longtop�s claims and now stands to profit from the stock�s collapse.

    �This is no longer a story about Longtop, and it is not a story about Deloitte,� he added. �Given the centrality of Chinese banks to the global economy, it�s a story much bigger than Deloitte or Longtop.�

    The Securities and Exchange Commission has started an investigation, and no doubt more details will emerge, including the names of the banks involved. Just what, if anything, Chinese officials choose to do could provide an indication about whether defrauding foreign investors is deemed to be a serious crime in China.

    Fraud in Chinese stocks is not new. But it had seemed that the worst problems were in small companies without Wall Street pedigrees. Many of the fraudulent companies went public in the United States by the reverse-merger shell route, a course long favored by shady stock promoters. That route allowed companies to start trading without going though a formal underwriting process or having its prospectus reviewed by the S.E.C. And many used tiny audit firms based in the United States that seemingly did little if any work.

    What is stunning about Longtop and some other recent disasters is the list of smart people who were fooled.

    Longtop did not go public through a reverse merger. Its initial public offering, in 2007, was underwritten by Goldman Sachs and Deutsche Bank. Morgan Stanley was a lead manager in a 2009 offering of more shares. Major owners of the stock included hedge funds run by people known as �tiger cubs� because they got their start at Julian Robertson�s Tiger Fund.

    On May 4, only a couple of weeks before the fateful struggle at Longtop offices, an analyst for Morgan Stanley, Carol Wang, wrote:

    �Longtop�s stock price has been very volatile in recent days amid fraud allegations that management has denied. Our analysis of margins and cash flow gives us confidence in its accounting methods. We believe market misconceptions provide a good entry point for long-term investors.�

    By then, Longtop officials had begun to scramble. According to its last audited balance sheet, cash accounted for more than half of Longtop�s $606 million in assets. Bears were asking why the company needed all that cash and were questioning whether it existed.

    In mid-March, just after the fraud at China MediaExpress was exposed, Longtop announced plans to put some of the cash to use by spending up to $50 million to repurchase its own shares. On April 28, the company tried to assure analysts that the fraud claims were bogus. Derek Palaschuk, a Canadian accountant who served as the company�s chief financial officer, wrapped himself in Deloitte�s prestige, saying that those who questioned Longtop were �criticizing the integrity of one of the top accounting firms in the world.�

    �For me,� he said, �the most important relations I have other than with my family, my C.E.O., and then the next on the list is Deloitte as our auditor, because their trust and support is extremely important.�

    Mr. Palaschuk had an explanation for why the company had not repurchased any shares. It had some very good news that it had not yet released, and �we were advised by our securities counsel that we should not be in the market purchasing our own shares in the event that this would be considered insider trading.�

    Longtop is not the only Chinese fraud that caught prominent Americans. Starr International, an investment company run by Hank Greenberg, the former chairman of American International Group, invested $43.5 million in China MediaExpress and had a representative on the company�s board. Starr has filed suit in Delaware against the company and Deloitte.

    Goldman Sachs was not the underwriter of ShengdaTech, a Chinese chemical company traded on Nasdaq, but its investment arm, Goldman Sachs Investment Management, had accumulated a 7.6 percent stake in the company before its auditor, KPMG, refused to sign off on the company�s 2010 annual report and then resigned in late April. KPMG cited �serious discrepancies� regarding bank balances and �discrepancies between KPMG�s direct calls to customers and confirmations returned by mail.� Just as at Longtop, it appeared that auditors had been given false confirmation letters.

    In each of those three cases � Longtop, China MediaExpress and ShengdaTech � the auditors discovered discrepancies, but only after signing off on financial statements. That was not the case in this year�s other � and perhaps most embarrassing � resignation by a Big Four auditing firm.



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